I would also like to know the answer.

Unless the board completes or commissions an operating expense study of similar Florida resorts, there is no way to quantitatively answer the question.

There could be numerous reasons why the budget is what it is - higher real estate taxes, higher labor costs, higher property and casualty insurance premiums, higher health insurance premiums (going even higher under Obama care), higher utility fees and so on....

Paul, it seems you are asking the board to commission a study. You should offer to provide the operating expenses for the other Florida resort you referred to while offering to conduct a statewide study of similar resorts. You could report the results here and to the board. Perhaps then, you will be satisfied, but if the expenses are in fact out-of-line, then the board will have sufficient information to make informed and intelligent decisions.

David, you seem to be trying to justify the high management fees. Our board already carries out a study of the fees each year when it comes to planning and approving the budget.

As regards to other resorts, I can only go from my own experience of owning six weeks of timeshare at various resorts around the world. One of the resorts I own at is a 5 star one in Orlando,Florida, and the fees there are about a third of those in Casa Y'bel. All the others are also much lower, and in a number of cases, daily maid service is also included.

As far as your other suggestion is concerned, if I was on the board I would carry out a comparative study, along with other opportunities to assist, but I stood for two years running and did not get elected, so I am not on the board, and one of the current members can do it.

Paul,

You are comparing apples to oranges.

There is no way a time-share near Disney, which is ground-zero of the time-share world, is anywhere close to being comparable to Casa Ybel. The labor cost alone in Orlando is over 1/2 the labor cost on Sanibel Island. Real estate taxes are going to be far less in Orlando as well as management fees. With the high volume of resorts in Orlando, there are economies of scale assocated with providing services, whereas Casa Ybel is practically standing alone on Sanibel, thus requiring separate on-site management, leasing, sales, landscaping, housing keeping, etc. With but a few exceptions, Sanibel Island is one of the most expensive real estate markets on the West Coast of Florida and providing services to an island is simply costly.

Like most of the complaints raised on this blog, you are unwilling to participate in finding the answer, but we are suppose to be impressed with your time-share ownerships around the world, as if you know Casa Ybel management is dishonest and stealing from us. I believe the expenses are reasonable for the location, quaility of the resort, and sevices provided.

David

You are really getting my goat! I did not ask you for your opinion, and I do not expect you to be obstructive. I am asking the board members why our fees are so high, and if you are genuinely an owner I am sure that it is in your interest to know the answer as well.

Unless, of course, you are actually a board member yourself using a false name.

I also take exception to being told that I am a complainer who is not willing to participate. As mentioned before, I stood for election to the board for two years running, and if elected I had set out in advance several things that I would have done to investigate this very issue. However, as I did not get elected, I am not in a position to do so.

I do not need you to justify why the fees are at such a high level, I would like somebody from our board or management company to explain it to me.

Well done, David. You made your point in the first couple paragraphs, but continued on to make personal attacks on Paul, which contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion and served to tick him off. You’ve done this before. There was nothing Paul said that warranted your diatribe.

Why don’t you just offer your opinions and leave it at that? What people write are sometimes fact, sometimes opinion, and neither deserves the type of response you usually offer. If you are so unhappy with the postings on this “blog”, then stop participating. Losing the input of some of our more regular participants would leave this forum weaker; you are not one of them.

I also agree that the maintenance fees are high and would welcome some kind of explanation. Casa Ybel is not “standing alone”; there are other timeshare resorts on the island. Strip away the taxes and the costs (mostly labor) should be comparable to other Floridian resorts. I have compared our maintenance fees with a few others’ (including some on Sanibel), and none come close.

If it would seem our maintenance fees are higher than comparable resorts on the island, I am wondering if our board members could contact the board presidents of other such resorts and request a copy of their annual fees for comparison? I think that there are several resorts on Sanibel that are managed by our company Hilton. I would think Hilton's fees would be pretty much the same across the board for their services. It would be interesting to see how, say Tortuga's and the Cottage's fees compare. Do they spend less than we do for furniture replacement, cleaning services, general building maintenance, etc? I am wondering if our fees are higher as a result of us not really owning the pool, tennis courts and front office building. As a result, we are paying yet another entity to use those facilities whereas such fees aren't paid at Tortuga nor the Sanibel Cottages since a group other than the time-share owners isn't involved. I really haven't any knowledge of other resorts fees, but I have thought at times that our fees do seem a bit higher than I would have expected. In fact, when I see what some of the owners are asking for rental fees on their off-season units, it seems like they barely cover the annual expenses. I understand that property taxes in September are lower than my unit in April, but the rest of the fees are the same. I have stayed in both Tortuga and the Cottages at various times and the units there are every bit as nice as what we have at Casa. True, they have no Thistle Lodge nor do they have a pooside bar, but the time-share units themselves are comparable. Both resorts have much less front office staff than at Casa and they don't necessarily have the activities for kids like Casa. That does add some expense which we pay for through Hospitality fees I would assume. My experience at both of those other resorts, was that they were much less family oriented than what we have come to expect and enjoy at Casa Ybel. Personally I wouldn't care to trade what we have for either of those places, but if you want more solitude, they fit the bill.

Question 1:
Do users of this FORUM go along with asking our webmaster to remove inputs from anonymous sources ?
I am sure we can start it right away without insulting the intruder.
Question 2:
I asked a board member how they can make such a large billing instrument approved in one session.
Answer was, we are not professionals, they are, they bake the cake and we agree to assume they use their long time experience in producing the best for us all.
I would like to be able to feel the board could explain our expenses in great details from here on.

We use to spend days detailing the expenses, asking a lot of questions.

Why do we send hundreds of $1,000 to Orlando without earmarks? We have for years.
How much is each unit owner paying to use the pool one week?

Carl Appelberg

Well, honestly, we are just blowing smoke here if there aren't a couple of board members inspired enough by this discussion to actually look into some of the concerns aired. You should know Carl, by your experience on the board, that one lonely voice can't get much done. It would take a common concern by the existing board(s) to investigate this properly and come to some conclusion.

The President of the FGH board is a regular contributor to this forum, so perhaps Lynn would be in a good position to raise this issue with the board and management company.

Carl, regarding your point about removing anonymous contributors, I have been asking for this for ages. It should also be a requirement that contributors provide a valid email address.

I am looking at last year's IJK annual budget for the period January 1, 2010 through December 31, 2010. The item that jumps out at me is the Building Maintenance line. The annual 2009 budget for this item was $33,360, the projected actual amount for the year was $54,074 and the 2010 annual budget was $51,192. This item includes Service, Equipment and Supplies. During my four weeks in January and February of 2010 in various units in building I just about every appliance failed, the lights went out and the roof leaked. When the repairmen arrived they were suggesting more things to be repaired for some of the appliances because that meant increased revenue and additional trips for their companies. These were not the on-site maintenance people, but the ones coming from Fort Myers. Our appliances are of the lowest quality and only checked for maintenance when owners arrive and take the time to call housekeeping for repairs. If we do not upgrade the quality of our appliances as they break (and repair the roof as soon as it leaks) our costs of amintenance will continue to skyrocket.

I am on Sanibel now and will be the rest of this week and all of the next. I'll answer the questions that I can.

Yes, we have compared our maintenance fees with the other Hilton managed Associations on Sanibel. FGH is the lowest of the group. When comparing fees, you must be certain to limit yourself to fees and not include taxes. We have no control over the taxes and they vary depending on the weeks you own. Prime weeks, really high, mid weeks lower and summer weeks, lowest.

I have no comparables with other intervals or time shares on Sanibel, but you have to remember that there is a vast difference between interval ownership and time shares.

Another factor of equal or great importance, is reserves. Speaking now for FGH, but I'm fairly certain that the same is true for IJK, we add enough to reserves each year to provide for replacements. Every major item in the units has a scheduled life and our budget has a pro-rated amount set aside every year to pay for that replacement in the scheduled year. For example, if the kitchen appliances are scheduled for replacement in 2013, we include enough in reserves that the money will be there to pay for the replacements in 2013. If the items are still servicable at that time, the reserves are carried over until they are replaced.

By maintaining the reserves, we avoid making assessments. I was not on the board at that time, but an assessment was needed after Hurricane Charly's visit and I believe one was made years before that to pay for microwaves in Building F and maybe H, to keep those buildings current with G which had them installed during construction.

If you still want to compare our fees with other, nonn-Hilton resorts on Sanibel, ask yourself these questions:

a. Where is there another 50 meter pool?
b. Where is another resort that has a pool side bar like Coconuts?
c. Where is there another resort that has a first class restaurant overlooking the Gulf?
d. What other resort has so much beach front?
e. Who else has maintenance service so many hours of the day?
f..What other resort has front desk service 24/7?

As to the Board spending days working on the budget, we have a volunteer board of directors, but we are paid our travel expense, lodging and food costs while meeting. How many days do you want to pay the expenses of 7 really good people, but not necessarily experts in the proparation of budgets? Spend a buck, save a penny? Speaking for myself, I'm cheap, I usually own the weeks of the meeting and no one gets charged for that and I'm too lazy most of the time to send in the expense form, so I think I have been compensated for travel expense and meals and about a third of the time. (Its fine with me, but my wife wants to kill me for it.)

I'm sure this doesn't answer all of your questions, but you have my e-mail address and can respond on this thread.

Lynn

Lynn, I do have some questions.

Regarding taxes, why do they vary from week to week? When I purchased my weeks (51 and 52), I paid a premium vs. nearly all the other weeks, but I don’t see why my taxes, which are based on the value of the real estate (which shouldn’t vary week to week), should be higher than others.

From a maintenance fee standpoint, what is the difference between Intervals and Time Shares?

The Coconuts bar and Thistle Lodge restaurant should be self funding. Why do our maintenance fees support these enterprises?

Why should the amount of beach front (which was the primary driver of our decision to buy) increase our maintenance fees? This should be reflected in the purchase price and property taxes only.

Regarding points e. and f., I really don’t know which resorts have these amenities, but I would be surprised if none did. I agree that they do drive higher maintenance fees.

A full answer to your question will be forthcoming, probably next week. I'm at Casa Ybel now and we had the budget meeting on Tuesday, setting the maintenance fees for the coming year. I will also give you, when I answer the amount of your taxes for the coming year, together with an explanation of how they are calculated.

Lynn

You should know why your fees are less in other countries than in the United States. Check to see how much they pay the people who work there. That should be the answer by itself. Please send me the information on the USA resort, whether it is a time share or an interval ownership and an accounting of their reserves, then a meaningful comparison can be made.

Respectifully

Lynn