What's common sense? That left this site years ago...
In the 34 times I've been to CasaYbel, I've not used the resort towels. I never take a towel to the pool or beach. I don't carry an ID with me. I will not be willing to do either of these just to use resort facilities. So, I guess I look like an evil interloper. But I'm not. In fact, I've paid far more than most of the other owners for the use of the facilities. I don't want to have to prove who I am.
As an original, pre-construction owner, I've seen the rise and decline of this issue many times. I've not yet seen a reasonable solution that does not either cost way too much, or that will not significantly alter the experience of Casa Ybel. The problem is not large enough to be worthy of either. When I purchased my unit, no one told me I would have formal security nor absolute exclusion of outsiders. If I want an experience different from what Casa Ybel provided and continues to provide, the solution may not be forcing a change on everyone else.
Does anyone else find it odd that this forum has created pejorative term, interlopers, to describe this group. There's something about this that does not feel right. I dare say we have almost all, at one time or another, been somewhere that we were not supposed to be.
For what it's worth, I've not seen that security guards are effective in scaring off anyone except the least timid of people who want to using the facilities like ours. It will take significant walls and/or fences along with multiple guards on duty at all times at multiple locations across the perimeter of the property. And it will be very costly to hire the calibre of security guard who will perform to the very high standards of our owners. Most security guards I see are not people who make me feel safe or even comfortable with their presence. And some of us will want them to be armed so that they look serious. That's not what I bought into. Casa Ybel just was not designed to provide this type of experience.
Well, I would be willing to pay more for better security. How much? That depends on how much better security. Our budget has tradeoffs, and in my view, a 32” TV in the living room and no 3rd TV in the second bedroom is well worth improved guest monitoring. Our “insane government” doesn’t do a good job managing tradeoffs, and that’s the primary reason for our large deficits. A major, if not the major role of the board is to triage the various demands for operating funds. I’m sure there are other parts of our budget that can reduced or eliminated without undue pain (e.g. add a year to the furniture replacement cycle). And maybe some things can be accomplished more efficiently. It depends on how big the security issue is perceived, and the discussion on this forum is indicating that the problem is serious.
Lynn, since we are about to lose visibility for your original “Dead Website” topic, please answer my question as to the extent of pool and parking lot monitoring that Casa Ybel is currently following.
I wonder if those who are very worked up on this topic will be willing to accept anything but the highest quality of security with multiple people on duty throughout the resort at the same time throughout the day. The cost will not be comparable to the cost of a TV. And, it probably will not work without walls or fencing. And some of us will want to have armed security.
Most resort/hotel security I've seen does not even intimidate Jr. High boys.
I'm not so sure that South Seas is a great example. You can go there without being a resident or owner. That security is not quite as good as you may perceive.
The only inexpensive and efficient way to handle interlopers is to require the wait staff to require proof of residency when serving food or drinks to cash or credit card customers and if they are not registered or guest of someone that they be advised the pool and pool lounge chairs are off limits.
George said it best. The problem of interlopers is SERIOUS. When I was there week 32 I witnessed several instances of freeloaders taking advantage of the premises. Bear in mind some are there only to swim in the pool, some to use the restroom facilities, some to overload the six person limit in the 2 bedrooms ( 2nd year with 10 people), some are there to sit on the beach in front of Casa to escape the crowded area just south where public access is. It all adds up to a density that is artificial and a detriment to the real guests.This was all witnessed by me in a casual way. Can you imagine what the actual interloper load really was?
I wonder if SERIOUS is a relative term. I've yet to hear of any police reports of physical attacks or damage by these individuals.
I own in a week that frequently includes July 4. It's always had this issue and always will. It's not significantly better or worse than it ever has been in the 34 times I've been at Casa Ybel. Every other nice resort on the island has the same issue.
And yes, we have people with too many people in their units. In our building and week, a consistent offender is one of our board members.
There are always rule breakers and there always will be. One of the things I've begun to notice is that the rules I break seem to be really small things, but the rules others break are a really big deal.
Let's agree not to discuss the rules we break.
Well, David, I guess it isn't serious to you, however, I would like a lounge chair when I come down to enjoy the pool and relax in the sun. Interlopers use these and I don't think this is right when we own and they don't. I don't really think the problem is too hard to solve. It was done at the beginning and could be done now by just checking for id. A small pool card isn't too much to carry and the towel guys soon learn who belongs and who doesn't. If you can't carry an id card, tell the pool guys you belong and not to throw you out.
Food and beverage want interlopers. Maybe they should have them bring their own chairs and leave our tables and chairs to those that pay for them. We couldn't even get management to boot babies out of the main pool and go to the kiddie pool. The rules r that they r not allowed. However, we were forced to swim with babies and their dirty diapers. Even after complaining. Such a nice kiddie pool, but noooooooooo that's not good enough.
Management is there to appease everyone. Owners or not. Sad, but true.
I don't intend to be offensive with the following question - Should I be required to show identification so you can get a lounge chair when you want it? I respect you and your view, but that feels excessive to me.
The problem does exist. I sense that it may be over-reported in too any cases. In too many cases, the reasons for suspicion have been because the suspects did not look like they belong. Too many of these cases were due to the suspected person's ethnicity or outward appearance. When I'm at Casa Ybel, I look a lot sloppier than I do when I'm back at work.
Is it serious? With all due respect, if this is a serious problem for our owners, then we are very fortunate people. Is it an inconvenience? Yes. But, we have never been guaranteed chairs at the pool. I remember many times when there were more legitimate owners and guests wanting chairs than there were chairs. This happens frequently during many weeks. If you were an owner during those times, you would still have this inconvenience (like I have) and it would not be non-residents causing the problem. We have so far not chosen to have enough chairs to have this level of capacity to ensure chair availability for all legitimate residents.
Let's consider potential solutions. Is it realistic to expect a teenager working with towels to have the people skills required to finese these almost always awkward confrontations? Is is realistic to expect servers from the bar to manage these confrontations when their tips depend on getting along with people at the pool? Do we want to pay for increased staffing so someone ese can frequently make the rounds and confront suspects? And what about those legitimate residents who get very angry when wrongy confronted - yes, it has happened?
I'm sorry, but I've not yet seen an effective solution that does not create unintended consequences that outweigh the value of the solution.
Of course it’s relative; virtually everything in life is relative. While some would triage security measures high (like me), others wouldn’t (you, apparently). You seem to take a libertarian view of life at Casa Ybel, whereas I, and others it appears, would like a bit more control.
I own weeks during Christmas and New Year (since 1980), and, in my view, the interloper issue is far greater than it was 10+ years ago. This position is unprovable, as is your position that things are no worse than they were over the 34 times you have visited Casa Ybel. I’m also surprised at your “red line” being physical attacks or damage. One participant in this discussion has mentioned an altercation that seemed to stop just short of that. How do you know that there have been no physical attacks or damage? These things are not advertised in the Sand Script. Besides, I think there are other reasons to try to control the trespassing issue than damage and physical attacks.
And as to your position that we will always have this problem, that is probably true. However, it doesn’t need to be as bad as it is. During our stay in 2009, increased security was launched for the week between Christmas and New Years, only. There was a noticeable and significant reduction (versus the previous week as well as the comparable week in previous years) in the number of people using Casa Ybel’s parking lot and accessing the beach and pool area. The problem was substantially, but not totally, solved. In our society, we have traffic laws as well as traffic cops, stop signs, traffic lights, etc., yet we still have speeders, people who run red lights, and those who ignore stop signs. But I’m sure no one doubts it would be worse without the security measures and laws. The belief that a 100% solution cannot be achieved is a poor reason not to pursue mitigating solutions. I think there are very few issues that have a total solution.
I believe a “card check” policy at the pool would be effective. If no ID is available, the staff can simply ask the unit number (and name, if needed) to compare to a master list.
However, I continue to believe that intercepting these interlopers at the gate or in the parking lot is the best solution, and it also addresses the beach issue, which is my main concern. And your statements that security is not effective are based on what? I’ve seen it work. These people are not hoodlums, for the most part, and there is a distribution of their intimidation levels. Some are deterred just by signage, and the sight of the security car (I’ve seen it happen many times and talked with the security personnel), while others need more coaxing.
If a board member is consistently violating the occupancy rule, he or she should be impeached.
I introduced the term “interlopers” when I was working on this issue nearly 5 years ago. I’m sorry you think it a pejorative term, but it is fitting. What euphemism would you prefer?
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I'm not sure I'm drawing a red line. And libertarian is not a word people use to describe me, but it is an interesting one. I just like to consider things in a larger context that's not heavily charged with emotion.
After 30+ years of addressing this issue at varying levels, a solution has not yet been found that is effective and that does not significantly raise costs or impose upon other owners/ residents.
Could you help me understand the beach issue? I'm not familiar with it.
Security should start in the parking lot. No car pass, no entry. The guard can have radio to the front desk for those who haven't checked in yet - but they must go straight to the office.
Put up signs that state - no car pass, your car will be towed! When the car arrives, and there is no pass - - - TOW IT!!! When guests register for the week, they should provide make, model, color and tag number. This way - if an owner forgets to put the pass - it can be easily verified before anyone tows.
DONE!! Once word gets out about cars being towed, and it costs the interlopers money to retrieve . . . they won't come anymore.
It's quite simple! It requires parking attendants.
This is nothing new to Casa Ybel or any other private or resort pool in the world; and surprisingly, it is easily solvable...
Put the slide up and then add one or two lifeguards. I don’t care what anyone says, the slide IS insurable.
The lifeguards will check everyone poolside from a master list created by the office. The lifeguards would simply walk around the pool casually checking people off the list. There is no need for a card or key. The list would be generated twice daily.
The lifeguard would ask: “I am checking in guests. What is your last name please or what under what name are you registered under or a guest of.” PERIOD – no further discussion required!
If they the party is not on the list, the lifeguard will politely inform them that they may be trespassing.
The guard, in front of the interloper, will call or walkie-talkie the office to insure the party is or is not a Casa Ybel guest nor a guest of a guest. This will take 30 seconds.
Next, the lifeguard will inform the party that they are neither on the guest list nor a guest of anyone on the list, and the office has been notified that they are in fact trespassing.
The lifeguard will then instruct them to leave immediately.
The office will then have the responsibility to remove them, by the police if necessary.
All this can be accomplished within two minutes. No need for the lifeguard to argue, discuss, or debate. Simply move on to the next guest.
If the interloper does not pack and leave within 5 or 10 minutes, the lifeguard will let the party know that the office has been alerted and again, politely asked them to pack and leave.
The lifeguard will call the office and inform them of the on-going situation.
If after another 10 minutes or so passes and the trespasser remains, the lifeguard will contact the office and the office will call the police.
The lifeguard will inform the party that the police are on the way.
I am tired of the idle threats and on-going debate over the interlopers. If it is a problem, let’s get serious and deal with it. As a nation and society, we are becoming increasingly soft and politically correct – afraid to hurt someone’s feelings. That is B.S. I have offered a legitimate solution. Granted, it may have some flaws, but it is better than anything else I have read.
We have just created two new jobs, made the kids and moms happy with the slide, and solved the interloper problem. This is the way it’s done all over Florida.
I like the suggestions mentioned in the 2 previous responses to your post. I think some level of implementation would be practical.
My family of 6 or 11 (depending on the year) mostly spend our time on the beach. We do use the pool, but do not use the lounges except as a place to put our towels and other items (usually only 1 or 2). We swim or leave, and do not lounge around the pool. Over the years, people have arrived at Casa Ybel from who knows where, parked in our lot (mostly near the tennis courts), unloaded their car(s), walked through our property, and set up camp on the beach, including coolers, which is a major giveaway. The beach, of course, is public property. During a slow period, there are few legitimate Casa Ybellers and few interlopers, and, except for the principle of the situation, tolerable. However, during a high volume week, such as week 52 and, I suspect, Easter and a very few other weeks, the beach has more legitimate and interloper density, and it gets crowded.
One of the selling points of Casa Ybel for us was the low ratio of condo units to beach frontage, likely the lowest on the island. This also makes it appealing to outsiders. I understand the beach is public, and I cannot just carve out my space and expect others to remain 100 yards away. But, even during a high volume week, if just legitimate guests use the beach, it is possible to set up a single line with each party having full, unimpeded view of the gulf and 40’ or more spacing. When you add even 5 or 6 more groups (not uncommon in front of buildings HIJK), then there are issues. Often, these folks don’t respect your space and plop down right in front of you. Sometimes there is annoying and loud music. Further, we see them using the pool.
As I’ve said many times, there are a number of ways to combat this problem. The existence of the Thistle Lodge certainly makes things dicier. But even saber rattling signage will have an effect. Some, maybe even many, people are intimidated by signs that declare cars will be towed if they don’t have a guest pass. A roving security guard also is effective. Totally eradicating the problem is probably impossible, and certainly not cost effective, but much can be done, I believe, within our budget (whatever that is).
There is another consideration here, I believe. Having used essentially the same MO since we first started coming to Casa Ybel, I can say with confidence that the interloper situation is far worse than 10+ years ago, and I do not recall any problems in our early years. No, I don’t have data. It is my contention that the word is out that Casa Ybel is not only a great place with a beautiful beach, but also a soft touch. It takes years for this reputation to be earned, and it will take years to change it.
As previous posts have mentioned, YES, the problem is worse than ten years ago! I have personally witnessed all the examples of interloping and you know what? The word is out. Casa is an easy get when it comes to trespassing = no consequences.
On our second week now and don't see what all the fuss is about. We have spent every day by the pool except for the recent rainy days. There have been kids who had to be told not to rough house in the pool and people have been asked to keep their drinks outside of the pool but I imagine that occurs at every pool. McT's restaurant is gone and there is a new breakfast restaurant called Bennett's Fresh Roast opening soon near the where the Lazy Flamingo is. The Sundial opened 3 new restaurants too and Doc Fords opened a second location at the entrance of South Seas. We eat out a lot on vacation.