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Re: Your Poorly-Presented Argument

discussion continued under "To John re: Your Poorly-Presented Argument"

Where is your evidence?

In regard to your comment:

"Second, you have changed your tune with respect to how mutations occur. Fantastic. Yes I agree, there are many ways that mutations occur. We're moving forward."

It's interesting that your faith in evolution precludes the fact that you don't know how it actually occurs. When given the chance to reflect your vast knowledge of it, this is all you could offer:

"The answers to your questions are unknown."
See http://pub17.bravenet.com/forum/1424646898/fetch/746945/

Do you believe that theories MUST be backed up with empirical evidence in order for them to be considered fact or is it OK to toss out claims and promote them as fact with absolutely no empirical evidence behind them?

In regard to your comment:
"I directly quoted many peer-reviewed scientific journals. If you don't believe what I wrote, read the article, then e-mail the corresponding authors of the articles. They'll tell you what they meant, then they'll provide the data to back up what they wrote."

Yes, they also make up wild claims with absolutely no empiral evidence substaintiating them:

The following is from a peer-reviewed journal published by the Public Library of Science:

“Why Most Published Research Findings Are False”

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020124

Summary: “There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false … Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias.”
Corollary 5: The greater the financial and other interests and prejudices in a scientific field, the less likely the research findings are to be true.
“Conflicts of interest and prejudice may increase bias, … Prejudice may not necessarily have financial roots. Scientists in a given field may be prejudiced purely because of their belief in a scientific theory or commitment to their own findings.”
Corollary 6: The hotter a scientific field (with more scientific teams involved), the less likely the research findings are to be true.
“This seemingly paradoxical corollary follows because, as stated above, the PPV of isolated findings decreases when many teams of investigators are involved in the same field. This may explain why we occasionally see major excitement followed rapidly by severe disappointments in fields that draw wide attention. With many teams working on the same field and with massive experimental data being produced, timing is of the essence in beating competition. Thus, each team may prioritize on pursuing and disseminating its most impressive “positive” results. “Negative” results may become attractive for dissemination only if some other team has found a “positive” association on the same question. In that case, it may be attractive to refute a claim made in some prestigious journal. The term Proteus phenomenon has been coined to describe this phenomenon of rapidly alternating extreme research claims and extremely opposite refutations. Empirical evidence suggests that this sequence of extreme opposites is very common in molecular genetics.”

Re: Where is your evidence?

Hi Julie,

Yes, I have unselfishly shared a wealth of my scientific knowledge with you and others on this board, even though it's a thankless job. Sometimes I feel a bit under appreciated, but it's my choice.

I'm curious why you would suggest that I don't know how evolution occurs. I'm not going to bother rehashing things that I've already written, because any reader who has gotten this far knows the score. But I'll leave you to reflect on what your motive for dishonesty is.

Finally, as I wrote in a separate post re: the PLoS article, remember that the scope of their findings is very narrow, that the title of the article is absurd, and that their methodology is suspect. Still, it is interesting that you choose to believe this particular article, but none of the others in scientific journals.

One more chance

Since we've given you multiple opportunities to share with everyone exactly how evolution works (as in the name of this forum), we'll assume you can't get past the theorical into application.

You might review the thread above named 'Deleted Postings'
http://pub17.bravenet.com/forum/1424646898/fetch/730388/

"While we realize that most postings are constructive, the determination of which ones are deleted is purely based on our admitted biased opinion. However, we do attempt to retain postings that are constructive and to the point, but we also 'clean up the board' and delete unconstructive rantings and postings that do nothing but pontificate (which include some of mine) and include nothing but opinions without supporting scientific references.

Supporting articles, research papers are needed to substantiate your argument. Blogs and your personal opinion do NOT qualify as 'evidence.'

If you look at our previous forum @ http://www.123forum.com/777 you can see that we were more than accommodating by retaining many postings that included personal slams and juvenile conjecture. We're not that accommodating anymore.

Most evolutionists and creationists desire a robust and respective debate and that is our goal, however imperfect our attempts may be."



If you would like to offer empirical evidence for the theory of evolution, go ahead. Otherwise, I will delete your postings as I did before as they are a waste of time for those of us who desire a constructive debate instead of a philosophical argument.

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Replying to:

Hi Julie,

Yes, I have unselfishly shared a wealth of my scientific knowledge with you and others on this board, even though it's a thankless job. Sometimes I feel a bit under appreciated, but it's my choice.

I'm curious why you would suggest that I don't know how evolution occurs. I'm not going to bother rehashing things that I've already written, because any reader who has gotten this far knows the score. But I'll leave you to reflect on what your motive for dishonesty is.

Finally, as I wrote in a separate post re: the PLoS article, remember that the scope of their findings is very narrow, that the title of the article is absurd, and that their methodology is suspect. Still, it is interesting that you choose to believe this particular article, but none of the others in scientific journals.