may sound dumb but what is midden and insitu?

I wanna see points fall from trees!

Don't ever feel a question is too silly around here; few months ago I was brand new to "digging" myself". Fortunately for me the folks around here are very helpful; and pretty darn decent at this little hobby I might add.

Thanks to all those that ever answered one of MY crazy questions.

Just wanted to say....Well Done! This is a Good example of why this web site is such a valuable resource, positive and rewarding, and continuously Growing. To all the highly experienced people who use this site, I admire your abilities, capacity, and wisdom shown in helping newcomers. It is why I like it so well, and am staying!

thanks but im still unsure about midden.someone asked if i were digging in the midden area.

If you are digging in a midden you will see a lot of burned rocks and there will be a bunch in little pieces. I have a couple middens that are above ground on my land 7 1/2 hours away. On my next trip down there I will try to take a good picture and post it on here.

Examples of midden rock and the snails we find in them here in Texas:

thanks again,that is awesome.i have been digging 10 years or so here in arkansas and have never seen anything like that before.

Basic answer to that question.A rock midden is the remains from heated rocks..rather used for cooking,or just staying warm.The rocks were heated until they literally broke apart.They could not be heated anymore,so new rocks were required.As this was repeated over and over they needed a place to discard the old ones.Virtually our trash pile,you may find a few nice points in a burnt rock midden,but more likely to find a lot of broken pieces, the finer,and more whole pieces are found in the camp area.No matter how small the site is.

is the bulk of your digging(in texas)done in open fields rather than bluff shelters.

Depends on your defenition of a midden..I would not consider the pictures posted a burnt rock midden.Yes you will find burnt rock remnants even in a camp site,but finding points around such areas might be leading into campground areas also...depends on the site!

True RY..this particular camp is small and thus not a true midden per say..just posting the pics for an idea of what it looks like. True middens were large camps and used over many generations... the midden rock and trash pile built up each time they disposed of the old rocks and over time formed a "mound".
There are of course burial type "mounds" as well but we are just discussing middens atm.

As RY says though each camp is its own animal. I've seen a camp where I found pieces that date from 8000 or so BP all the way up to 1000 or so BP (before present). This suggests that seasonal usage over many generations occured at that particular camp.

Feel free to fire any more questions.

Hey that's cool.Speaking from experience. I have seen True burnt rock middens from a flat surface to below ground 4' deep with no above sign on the surface.I have also seen flat ground with obvious burnt rock midden mounds above ground about 2' high. Thats when they are obvious to what we call Indian mound's.Regardless a burnt rock midden under the surface or above, will not produce the quanity or quality of the points we all want to find in the campground area's

The above pics are from one of the "flat" type camps you speak of...just because it wasn't used very often and the sterile layer is relatively shallow... 16 inches down at most.

Matt, we use the term midden pretty openly here in Texas, as most surface middens contain variable levels of heat fractured limestone fragments. Over time the fire ash produced in these middens absorbs organic content which facilitates a transition to carbon rich alkaline soil and dark claysoil. In rock shelters and caves where rain water runoff cannot readily soak these organics in, the fire ash is generally better preserved in a powder like dusty consistency, with not much cohesion (considerably less clay lenses being produced). Searching throuh this material often requires sifting through a screen (a more predominent practice than in surface middens). However, the term Mound(s) may be more appropriate in other areas of the country and states where the use of rock for cooking was not readily available, and or not practiced due to alternate sources. Campsite mounds may vary greatly in their internal characteristics across the country, and some contain almost no rocks at all. Some campsites were mounded intentionaly to increase better drainage away from a homesite, while others were constructed as intentional burial sites, and still others were the objects of ceremonial use and ritual beliefs, and some are pottery mounds where the pottery was purposely covered to leach out impurities as well as safe stowage. There was a nice book done on the subject in the early 80's. I couldn't afford to get it at the time, but if memory serves correctly it was called Mound Builders of the Americas. I looked it over for a good while, but have not run across it again.

Good info!

thanks for the info. guys.

from kerrville area just moved to brown couty tx. does anyone know of any good looking spots around here???could exchange knowledge of old hunting grounds!

Just a comment on "midden" Midden mounds are positive features built up from the refuse of years of occupation (fire rock, artifacts, soil) as opposed to man-made earthen mounds like at Spiro in east Oklahoma. Midden seems to be used for any evidence of occupation around here (dirt with arrowheads in it).

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