THE MESSAGE BOARD POINT CHATTER IS NOW CLOSED TO ALL NEW POSTS.
Good One! The stronger the excurvate sides are the better I like em. Ever notice that a comanche perd is always at least a G-7 or 8, or better? This is the most prefered style of the type. Maybe Overstreet will catch up someday.
What exactly is a Comanche Perd? What are the characteristics and how do they differ from regular Perds?
Whoever might field CodyD's question, could you include any reference guide that might show the complete Perd historic timeline. As the most common point found over a time line of around four thousand years some designs should reflect what was going on at that time [ sort of like keeping up with the latest
fashion trends ]. Tks
I'm no archeologist,but in laymans terms I believe the difference is this.Your basic middle archaic pedernales point normally has a basal notch, and is symmetrical with the stem up to the shoulder or ears.The barbs are smaller and not much wider than the base.A comanche pedernales has a basal notch, but the stem is longer,and the ears are wider,and the point is more triangular,and usually much larger and much more intricate.I believe it's a late archaic,to late prehistoric era.The triangle was very important to the comanche people,and was used alot in their culture and designs.Here are some examples.
RY, good explanation and good choice of examples. I went surface hunting on Google for Perdenales, lots of interesting info but not the EXACT details I was hoping for. "Somewhere" in that Google was a huge site name that included LEGASY IN STONE. They have 3 Perd pics showing older to youngest exactly like your examples.
I have always been curious about why they are called Comanche Perds. I know points are named after locales and people and so on but who has the honor of naming points?
Casey, Only Archeologists/Phd.s who have presented years of studies at national events and secure panel approval have that honor. This is the way it has always been, and I don't think that much has changed.
The Comanche people originated from the plains indians culture.This included all of central North America,including Canada.This culture did'nt evolve overnight.Obviously the latter Comanches did'nt make these artifacts,but were a part of the culture that did.Their culture was handed down from generation to generation and their beliefs came from these people who lived and made points thousands of years ago.Obviously they did'nt set down and say,I'm going to make a pedernales point today and a Scottsbluff tommorrow.These were traits that were passed down as they learned new techniques.No arrowhead had a given name until modern man gave them one.
Now we're getting the facts on the table...Probably 6 years ago I found a broken point that an all knowing individual, who I didn't like....said, It's a COMMANCHE PERD. I didn't like name so I did some homework, sure enough, I have seen in PRINT that that type we are talking about is/was called a BATWING PERD.
Very, very sorry I can produce the source at this writting but it's out there. In the intervening years, until today, positively EVERYONE and their granma calls them Commanche.[ Except of course, Mike who lives in a cave ! ] "some" say its a Perd type that was first identified near the CITY of Commanche TX.
I think all agree, including Granma, that the Commanches had nothing to do with it.
I like RY's input re the evolution of Perds...Slo and steady, down through the MILLINEUMS of history.
Some worthy archeologist once noted that IMPRINTING from birth was how points stayed relatively unchanged for THOUSANDS of years. Your great grandfather made them this way, so did your grandfather and thats the way my father is making them today.....A decendant of the Perd family was practically incapable of fashioning a piece of flint like the Montell family.
STOP THE PRESSES
DONT THROW ANY MORE GAS ON THE FIRE....
Seconds after I hit the post button on that last twix,
I typed this into google...
BATWING PEDERNALES POINT
BINGO...There it is ....A BATWING PERD in print AND a
picture OF SAME.
Now how do we "erase" the Commanche IMPRINT from TX diggers ??[ especially that guy I dont like ! ]
You are correct! I have heard them termed a batwing also.I think the most important thing is the noticeable difference in the technique used down through evoloution.I'm sure there was a reason they changed their technique,but I'm not sure why that was.
Now hold on just a minute Hal......I'm coming back out of my cave for a second tasting.....and Bats are my friends too! Pipestrals, Myotis, and Mexican Freetails......Got em all....and they all agree.....Batwing Perd it is! Y even elmer fudd says...I wike it awot!
Now as far as the style change....Look at the Big Foot Frio Point that was recently called an Exotic Form....the batwing perd is sleak,slim, and a down right fine worked gem....the peak of craftsmanship! Why drive a clunker when you can have a corvette?
As long as we're nit-picking over terminology, how come we use the term "Perd?" I've heard of Pedernales but not Perdenales. Shouldn't we just call them "Peds?" Must be a Texas thing.
OK..ok...point taken! Most definitely Yes, it's a Texas Thing, and Jeff Foxworthy is alive and well here.If you live here long enough, don't be surprised if you start speaking in tounges too! The overall grammer used on this site would not win any spelling bees, nor is it a Harvard University (poindexter) train of thought either.
Pedernales in spanish means arrowhead. Ped or Peds (plural) means foot or feet, as in the ones you stand on! Now you don't want people to think were talking about our tired,dirty,smelly feet do ya? The important thing is......that you know what we are talking about...right? Hal, you in there somewhere?
Actually, what Texas slang needs to be about these days is our own way of still communicating when spanish takes over as our First spoken language in the good ole USA, as that is what 71 senators voted for! Now say Pedernales over and over and over, until you inevitably slip up....and say the unthinkable!
Have a Great Day!
Unless of course you are talking about Hals recent "One Foot Perd"!
Then things get really crazy.
Would that be a "Uno Ped Perd?"
Or, if you hadn't dug it up yet it could be "Uno Ped Perd bajo mis Peds?"
Actually I think the batwing...ok I'll say it perd,is a little different than what were calling the comanche perd.The ears are more curved like a big'ol calf creek or something similar.