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Point Chatter - AustinDiggers.com - Arrowhead Message Board
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hole?

I came across this hole in the wall along a dry creek bed the entry hole is about 30 yards from the creek bed and elevated about 8-10 above creek bed. The top hole is at the end of a large slope and about 16 ft up from the lower hole. and about 4 ft from the edge of the cliff. Cant imagine what it is, hole

Re: hole?

Looks like it would make a great smoke house.
Could be from a very very old flood that buried a tree then the wood rotted away.
BUT what do I know

Re: hole?

looks like a sink hole but its quite odd ..

where did you find it on what creek and state

Re: hole?

Its no sink hole , its man made the sides are chipped , and the entry has almost a donut type rim that has been chipped from the inside , look at the shovel pic. I don't think ive seen an elevated sink hole on the side of a small cliff befor

Re: hole?

Holey mystery batman!

The small lower hole certainly looks "man made" but
immediatly begs the question . . . WHY ? It takes
a reasonable amount of work to put a hole in stone
and humans are programed to do that only if there is
profit or gain involved ! I seems to me the sort
of thing kids [ 22 years old ] might do in a long hot
summer.

Goats are big excavators but usually where shade is
scarce [like semi-desert], not in a nice cozy Texas
near dry creek environment.

One very positive analisis is a GOOD metal detector
search. IF its man made, they were out there more than once after making an entry hole. Top, inside,
big radius around lower hole.

Your cross section schematic is great, Mike is our resident expert on deep, dark, creepy places, I hope he would agree [ or modify ] the fact that, that much
rock volume of space went somewhere. If in solution
then there is a reasonable size water out let.
IF it was more of a "cave-in" process then there is
a lot of rubble under the present cave base line.

What county is this ?

Re: hole?

My ideas illustrated. The hole is in san antonio , I think its a good location for some exvacation . If i cant find it on the ground then I'm not digging . Their is a a field across where excavaction has started for some construction . If any one wants to visit the site contact me at my e mail thomasuras@yahoo.com You just have to keep me informed what u find :0) and how you u find Photobucket

Re: hole?

If it was used for a sewer I don't think they would have put a hole in the side to let it drain out.

Re: hole?

i live in san antonio and if im guessin i would say its along the cibolo creek i would like to see it if possible...

Re: hole?

Looks like a lime kiln to me, probably from the 1800's. I've seen a couple like the one pictured above here in Bandera County. The settlers took advantage of the cliff since lime kilns are loaded from the top(with limestone and firewood), and the resulting lime is taken from the hole at the bottom. The lime was used to make mortar/cement for laying rock. Just a thought. Paul

Re: hole?

Hi Rick, I am a Karst Geologist by trade, and after viewing your good photos, it would appear that what you found is an old resurgent drain tube (lower hole) structurally connected to a small sinkhole (upper hole). The way this use to function (and possibly still may), is that rainfall runoff captured by the upper sinkhole directed it's flow through the horizontal tube towards the creek. It is a classic small scale example of how uplands caves transmit water to resurgence springs at lower elevations. It is like natures own natural plumbing in limestone (or partial limestone) terrains.

Re: hole?

Please note that I missed seeing all the lower photos and comments before giving mine. I still think it could have originally been what I said above, however it has been greatly modified if so, and now less certain as at least the upper part of the shaft appears almost drilled or cored by an Lds rig. Alot of hand dug things were well rounded, but this really looks cored out by a machine. The rounded facing on the lower opening look suspiciously like it may have been used as a Kiln. It would have made a great one, but for drying and curing what? Alot of karst features have been modified like this one for differing uses. Would be nice to know some history on this ones uses.

Re: hole?

Mike i can assure you it hasent been cored or drilled , axcess to the location is the major factor and the trees that surround it some are well over 80+ years the diameter is 6 ft at the top and is a constant bell to almost 9 ft.

Re: hole?

Aah good, Mike has modified his analysis to included the possibility of human modification.

A tax records or old plat records check to find the original land owners might shed light on it, Rancher ?
wheat farmer ? Limestone manufacturer ? Joker !

I googled "Texas limestone kilns" Did not find a
direct connection but did not spend much time on it.
For anyone just wanting to see a pic of a lime stone
kiln, picked this ofF google.
DAVISTOWNMUSEUM.ORG

Re: hole?

I believe you when you say that it has not been drilled or cored, but its pretty remarkable that it would descend, bell out, and be that uniformly cylindrical in a natural state. There are rigs now that can drill or core a bell shaped shaft of that size, but of course they did not exist that long ago.
If it was shaped and smoothed by hand,it would have been a labor of love, of which is highly impressive. I have seen highly sculpted tubes both vertical and horizontal in a natural state, but not this pronounced in appearance. I hope that you can track down some history on the site. It is really neat!

Re: hole?

Rick, Are you still around? Tried that Email as listed above, no answer, still interested ?

Re: hole?

yea im still here , e maile me and list hole on tthe subject so i dont delate it :0) thomasuras@yahoo.com

Re: hole?

Sent an AUSDGRS special forces team out to have a look at this Hole today.
Rick, our host was kind enough to lead the expedition at the crack of dawn today. Not much trouble finding it but like any good trekking epic, there were dangers
on the trail. . . . . . HUNDREDS of white T-shirted
Amazons on the trail [jogging?] frowning upon vehicles in their domain.

Two major points were definitly possibly resolved.
The main vertical big cavity was plausibly a water
cistern with a gate of some sort near the bottom.
#2, the smaller lower hole, that may have held a gate
or door device has been fairly recently enlarged as
evidenced by the non weathered surounding rock and
soils. It was grudgingly agreed that the reason for the enlarged hole, big enough for Frank to crawl through was for safety. The land owners [ whoever
would be at the end of a billion dollar lawsuit] rightly figured that an adult or kid that skidded down might very well not be able to get out.

Here is another picture of Frank & Michelle, the lead investigators. This picture should clear every thing up nicely

Photobucket

Rick showed us a collection of his surface finds [ not from the hole area ] A lot of variety and a few
"who knows" Well we all went off to the flint show
and Rick asked two professional appraisers their opinion of one of the more interesting unknowns. . . . . . . A CLOVIS PREFORM ! Make my day !

Many thanks for the visit escort Rick, very intersting
good trip.

Re: hole?

Critter hole? jw-james

Re: hole?

Geo, great set of pics. That last one of Peg leg with the one foot is the best. But What does that eighteen inch deep hole have to do with the main story
of the deep cistern pit?