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Point Chatter - AustinDiggers.com - Arrowhead Message Board
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knife with handle

found these in context with each other, and i think that its a knife with handle. the point fits into the bone like a glove, it even has a groove scratched out of the back for the point to sit in.
in addition it has six notches clearly cut into the side of the "handle." Photobucket
Photobucket
Photobucket

Re: knife with handle

Wow! Gun slingers used to knotch their guns for the men they killed. I wonder if the indians did the same with their knives.

Re: knife with handle

Many a time, I've wondered the same thing when I find a point. are you familiar with counting coup, where they would strike the enemy with their hand or the butt if their spear non-fatally to prove their manhood?Maybe the notches have some similar significance? One thing I forgot to mention is that the knife has a lot of wear on one side, and less on the other. So more than likely, this was a favored deer skinning tool.

Re: knife with handle

That is pretty cool Tucker. Did you find it a cave shelter? Whats the story?

Re: knife with handle

No cave, nor rock shelter, I dug it out of a camp on a little creek in Kendall county. We find a ton of bone here, as much if not more than flint. For some reason or another the conditions are great for preserving it, we find it in every layer but the early archaic/possible paleo layer because it is even with the water level. so some of the bone We find is 9,000 years old which is pretty amazing in its self. I dug the point out point first and when it was far enough out I pulled it. Then I scraped a little more dirt off and saw the bone protruding out from where the point had been, I picked it up and saw the notches, and put the point where it had been originally, and it fit. That's about all there is to it, I guess it just got buried at the right time, and the bone was preserved. More luck than anything, thanks for the positive comments.
Also does anyone know how to properly preserve this thing?

Re: knife with handle

Google: Preserving bone artifacts.

Re: knife with handle

Tucker
Many a time, I've wondered the same thing when I find a point. are you familiar with counting coup, where they would strike the enemy with their hand or the butt if their spear non-fatally to prove their manhood?Maybe the notches have some similar significance? One thing I forgot to mention is that the knife has a lot of wear on one side, and less on the other. So more than likely, this was a favored deer skinning tool.

Countin coup was the first thing that I thought of but the story of notches for death makes a better story. I do know that they got feathers for countin coup.

Re: knife with handle

Too bad Tuck, A knife find like that generally warrents a special display case of it's very own,
More new frame expenses !!!!



Takes time to ac***ulate that many notches, must have been a favorite of the owner. He would be
pleased to know it was being preserved as a treasure.

Nice going

Re: knife with handle

great find. Looks like it fits together great.

Re: knife with handle

very cool! seems like those notches could have been made for gripping? how does it fit in the hand?

Re: knife with handle

It's too small for my hand, but then again my hand is huge, the notches seem to serve the asthetic more than function. It would fit a smaller hand better, it may have belonged to a woman, just as easily as a man or perhaps even a juvenile, whatever the case it seems it would better fit ideally in a slightly below average hand.

Re: knife with handle

Great find, thanks for sharing!

Re: knife with handle

Trav, what if anything have you found out / deceided on for the antler preservation.?
That white glue treatment is the fossilers best friend to hold delicate finds together.

I was wondering if there was something available to the common man like they use for wooden ship
conservation. They soak the wood for months in some solution and it magically soaks up a forever man made preservative right down to the roots !

Re: knife with handle

Pert darn cool there Tucker! I'm with SH .... better get another case. Great find

Re: knife with handle

Any excuse for a new case is a good one, sh if you google preserving bone artifacts there is a good recipe. I think it's from dr gomer

Re: knife with handle

Tucker
Any excuse for a new case is a good one, sh if you google preserving bone artifacts there is a good recipe. I think it's from dr gomer


Thats the brew, I didn't get as far as the Gomer family recipe, I stopped at the University of Nebraska's
special T-Rex formula.

Re: knife with handle

Hey which creek curry or rawls ? my family once owned most of the land all the way to kendalia from rawls up.

my great great grandfathers brother jessee lawhon was killed on the creek on a bluff on the road to sisterdale

A war party jumped him and a young slave they worked for i think it was the jones plantation back in the day they where rounding up oxen when they emerged from a thicket and he was shot killed and scalped the slave went and hid and told of what happened ..

you can read about it in the book the boy captives and indian depredations of texas great reading ..

my great grandfathers place was awesome even had a burial ground on it on a high bluff on rawls creek where the water fall was .. he always told us never to go there it was sacred and bad medicine

now i look back bet there were camps all along that property but on the surface as a young boy i use to find points from time to time on our spread

i hear about kendall county artifacts often wish i could go back in time and dig ... since then proprty has been sold

Re: knife with handle

I'm digging on Rawls creek which has a couple of known mounds on it and countless
sones that landowners have kept closely gaurded secret, we keep game cameras up ourselves because once before the mound was poached. They actually bulldozed through a super rich camp when they built the little bridge over Rawls. I've seen the points that came out of it and some are the finest I've ever seen, multiple g 10 artifacts came from the site. And countless more points are buried under all that asphalt. There seems to be a camp about every mile and a half up and down Rawls but many have been dug out, and the rest lay under the close watch of protective landowners. Kendall county is a great plce to dig and I'm really blessed to do it, recently i've been invited to dig two more camps, but I have to wait for it to dry up first.
Also your great uncle is somewhat of a local legend, as the last white man killed by *****s in Kendall county. I heard from my grandpa that a white man rode with the war party and had paid them, the tonkawas (who were usually not aggressive), to kill ole Jesse. Then later after the slave escaped to town he identified the man he saw ride with the Indians,but was disregarded due to his status as a slave. Whether that really happened or not, I don't know. But it's neat to meet someone related to the local legend.

Re: knife with handle

eric
great find. Looks like it fits together great.


Too wet for digging this morn. Travel channel running all the "treasure" show reruns.

First part of one show, gathering Rainbow Obsidion in Washington State. As its like a lava flow, there was whole hillsides of it !

Part two, knapper made a small blade. Hollowed out one end of a deer antler [ no slot, just hole]
then mixed tree sap with charcoal, heated it up and put in the hole. Steady the blade while it cools.

Last part, was stong enough to convert a Salmon from stream to mouthbite size in short order.

Re: knife with handle

I'd watched that episode a while back, gave me the hankering to run out there next time on vacation and pick up a truck load. I know a couple of knappers that sure want to get ahold of some of it, and I'd like to see how it looks when knapped out into a fine point. From what I saw on that show, it seemed pretty easy to work.

Re: knife with handle

Thanks tucker i guess you know where him and his brothers graves are ?

Re: knife with handle

hey tucker my familys last bit of land was on rawls it was devided between brothers and sisters leonard lawhon , grover , stella and my grandmother the woman who raised me erna which lived next door to the elbels ....

if you went through my grandmothers and followed the creek up on the other side of the fence was a huge sinkhole then ***her up on grover and josepehens property the falls that spilled in from the high ground was where the burial grounds where .. plenty of wild plum trees and other wild fruit ect

we were never allowed to go there but im stubborn and got a peek when i was younger cant remember much but i can remember alot of mounds and it was a awesome place .

my grandmother sold her place a few years back due to health problems and now lives in boerne on johns road

i remember youre familys name i hope someday to get to meet you in person take care

Re: knife with handle

Would love to meet to you too and talk some time. And I know exactly the spot you're talking about. Saw the falls once when I was very small, but the property caretakers have gotten really strict in the last couple of years, and it's pretty much shut down to visiters. I don't blame them one bit for closing the gates to everyone, there was a very good reason, but I wish the falls were still accessible, they are really pretty. And no I'm not real sure where anyone is buried except maybe phiel cemetary or kneupper cemetary... But I guess all this goes to show it really is a small world. Maybe I'll meet and greet with you at next digfest, if not before.

Re: knife with handle

There buried by the big oak tree they say the taller one is jessee unmarked down that road that goes to sisterdale highway from currys creek through the ranches i forget the name of the road

Re: knife with handle

sansom road maybe? is it on the catto gage place?

Re: knife with handle

YEPP You got the right road and yes i think you are correct about the place

Re: knife with handle

hey tucker hows stanley related to you ? him and my aunt walked together in a wedding when they were both little ?

Re: knife with handle

LEE A.K.A. SANANTONIODIGGER
hey tucker hows stanley related to you ? him and my aunt walked together in a wedding when they were both little ?


You guys are doing great locating old relatives and aquaintences, How about inviting the entire readership out to Tucks dig site and we can see if
we can find anymore old buddies matchups

Re: knife with handle

Well sh I would like to have some people out, but landowners say no, so I guess that's just the way it goes, not to mention if half the crowd that showed up for digfest came the site could be dugout within a day... It's pretty small. . Anyways Lee, Stanley is my grandpas brother, on my dads side.