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Forum: Point Chatter - AustinDiggers.com - Arrowhead Message Board
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gower-jetta-perd? id help please

made a full day of it, had a great time, hot and humid, day ended with a little lightning and thunder!

heres todays finds!

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these next two need id help.

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i have found quite a few of these, can someone tell me what they are and where they originated?

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

I'd say Jetta on the 2nd pic. Not sure about the next one.

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

The small point at the bottom is a darl and the balls were used for some type of game

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

thanks teh, i believe the next one is a perd.
jayradd just curious on the ball/stones, i believe they were created in someway by minerals in water. what area of texas or is it common all over texas?

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

We have them here but they're sandstone and probably just a natural formation. Yours may be game stones.

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

I'm much better at identifing what something is NOT...best point is NOT a Perd. Base has more features of a Jetta than a Gower.
Jay's got the other one, a classic design Darl

He's also right on the Shaman stones [ game balls ]..Markesite...Look like they were hand polished from their natural formation design.

Good show

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

Mundane properties of Shaman Stones
Geology: These stones are one of natures oddities. Cut one through the middle and you will reveal a hematite shell with a solid sandstone centre. The outer shell of hematite (iron oxide) congealed around a sandstone centre which may be stained in red or yellow from the iron oxides leaching into the sand. Occasionally there are extra rings of hematite in the centre. Shaman stones are also known as Navajo cherries, Indian marbles or just plain balls.

They are formed in the lower part of the Navajo Sandstone Formation found predominantly in Southern Utah and Northern Arizona. Part of this formation was laid down approximately 190 million years ago at the commencement of the Jurassic era. While we know when, where and what they formed from, there is yet little geological information to provide an explanation on how these stones came into being. It is highly likely that they were formed at a time when the original sand dunes, now the Navajo Sandstone formation, were underwater.

The iron in Shaman stones may originally have been a substance called Limonite which is a hydrous ferric iron oxide. This type of iron oxide is known to form a gel when under pressure. The sand in the Navajo formation ranged between 300 – 600 metres (1000-2000 feet) deep with a sea above it. At these depths there would have been a tremendous amount of pressure produced; possibly enough to cause the limonite to form a gel. We also know that heat can change Limonite to Hematite, which is a stable form of Iron oxide. This then solidified around a core of compressed sand and in theory, this could be how Shaman stones were created
theres some maybe and could be in this article. try to research, but could not find alot of info.

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

The one looks Jetta, however, if the notch flake scars look like little commas..........then more likely Gower.

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

nice finds.......good days haul!!!!!!!

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

Awesome finds!!!! I have seen game balls found up here in North Central Texas at Fall Creek made out of limestone.

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

Quote: michael walker
The one looks Jetta, however, if the notch flake scars look like little commas..........then more likely Gower.


I defer to Mike

Sandy, to support all your research on the balls...one site I hit said they were formed in " cold, very deep seabeds "

The nice thing about your finds is that they were found in a camp context and have to be polished as the natural formation exterior is VERY nobbly ..

Puttem in the Shamans' magical tool box frame

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

SHAMAN STONES, i will keep them in my pocket and see if it brings me good luck!! have a good day!

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

late commer here but the i thought i might put my 2 cents worth in, the first point is a jetta, the deep bifurcation without the basal thinning of pedernales coupled with ground outer edges of the "legs" is a classic jetta rework, the next one appears to be one also although worn out, look for an un reworked one they are awsome! hope it helps. ron

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

#
1 pic is gower(tangs curve in)any grinding? #2 pic resharpened perd #3 darl

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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

No grinding, thanks for taking a look.

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

First picture looks like mighty good day worth of finds.
Second picture appears to be Jetta in type.
Third picture, an exhausted point of some type.
Fourth Picture appears Darl.
Last picture, just as you called it and used as ????.

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

Thanks gt, maybe jetter , post some of those killers you been finding?

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

Quote: sandman
Thanks gt, maybe jetter , post some of those killers you been finding?


I'll give her a try Sandman. Found this biface blade last month. Don't ask me for a name on it otherwise, because I don't know. It is 6 1/8" long. Opinions welcome.


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Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

That's is very nice, my stab at a i.d. would be a huge Hare biface? Very nice!! Keep em coming.

Re: gower-jetta-perd? id help please

Thanks for the reply Sandman. I noticed in Turner/Hester's latest book edition, they dropped the Hare Biface as a type for some reason. Perhaps they now view the Hare Biface as a preform of a type that was never completely finished?