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Many years ago I found a Barber point and in the same area two other points that I thought were Paleo but was told they're fluted Kinney's. Both have basal grinding.
The Barber, I've been told, is a rare point. So question is, of all the Tx. points, which ones are rare? I used to think it's the CTang but it seems those are found on a regular basis in the hill country.
Here's the Barber and the two fluted Kinney's
Barbers are more rare than clovis..ever consider selling let me know
Hey JT, long time since I've seen you. Last time was out at Shoepeg, y'all were going to dig the next day. I don't plan on selling any of mine but have been offered $800 at Fredericksburg at the show last year. Don't know if it's worth it.
I did hear that one of the fluted Kinney's was a Golondrina. It does have some of the characteristics of one and I know of one other that was found in the general area.
What other points are on the rare list? A palmillas or Shumla? I don't see a lot of them posted on any site. Seems the bulk of finds are limited to just a couple of dozen point types. Others, you rarely see.
I found a point that looks just like the one on the left there in your photo. I have had several people agree with me that its a barber. I have other try to tell me its a kinney with a deep basal notch. Now I have an Overstreet book and I dont see any way it could be a kinney based on the pictures in that book. Great finds man, I think other are just hate'in on you wishing they had one!! I'm certainly no expert but I say if it looks like the pictures in the book, go with that.
Your absolutly right on about shoepeg...it has been a while. rarely get down in that neck of the woods anymore. I've seen numerous shumla points and have found several but not any palmillas. I guess i would have to say the palm is more rare just because i've never found one. Going to dig with TJ Wednesday rain or shine in Comfort..test my luck...then on to brackettville to do some exotic bow hunting and arrowhead hunting...The other one looks golondrina to me also. 3" or less $800 is a fair price
My first thougts on it was that it was a Kinney but I'd posted it and got Barber from several people, then took it to the Fred'sburg show and got the same answer. I do agree that it's rarer then the Folsom and Clovis, seen plenty of them posted on the sites, but don't recall anyone posting a Barber.
Let me know how you do out there at Comfort. We thought about going but then TJ said he has another new dig just north of Barksdale. Planned on that one first but it got shut down due to deer season, then work load picked up so it'll be after the 1st of the year before we can get loose. Sure looking forward to it.
That, SH, is kinda where I'm going with this. Even in this area that has some points only indigenous to this area, have eluded my capture. With such a broad Tx. base membership on this forum, hunter/gatherer/collectors in each area have a few of those endangered and rare points in their general locale that haven't been found or posted.
I go through Hester's older (hadn't got the new one yet) book and see certain types that I've never seen posted on the forum. Either the finders have mislabeled them or haven't found one and posted it. Not that it's a local point but I don't recall a Morhiss or Trinity point being posted. That's what I was wondering, how many point types in Tx are not commonly found.
Even the CTang has gotten to where it's not that rare.
Great thoughts from all. I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out what's what.
I had to throw in the red little rocks above the points. Nearly all the flint in this area is the same color as the points. I only find the clear, red, and black flint in small pebble sizes.
Maybe when I find a Corner Tang I'll think they're aren't rare. But I doubt it. I have a broken base. No tip. Man, I'd like to find one.
How about a Jetta being a rare point find for Texas? I know that a lot of look-alikes are found, but a true jetta - complete with the beveled tip, should probably be one of the rarer types considered.
That's another one that I've only seen a couple posted on the sites. Like you said, a few wannabe's and hopefuls that turned out to be worn out Perd's but only one or two true Jetta's.
Hester had in his older books the Clifton, a Perdiz preform that now is missing from the book, (or so I've heard since I hadn't gotten the new one yet). I've got a couple of them, but rarely see the Clifton point posted either.
That one too.
I see very few of them posted either.
I was looking at all the Tx points in Hester's book and realized just how many of them rarely show up on the forums. Even the bird points, some with a fairly large area coverage yet just never pop up on the sites. Don't recall a Fresno being posted.
I'm still stuck for a single "rare" point in my collection...might be some interest to some to see the
frame I made about 5 yrs ago that was a display of as many different types as I had at that time...a number was the only ONE that I had found.
IF I was pushed for a single one, lets make it a SCOTTSBLUFF...I have since found 2 better examples than the one originally framed but that still makes them a
bit rare in this area ( Travis Williamson, Bell counties )
Notice laboriously photocopied and cut out Ovrsts book labels
how about the Val Verde point, I cant seem to find this particular point, even in the shows.
how about the Val Verde point, I cant seem to find this particular point, even in the shows.
I saw one Val Verde at Fredericksburg and one on the site. Your Scottie, SH, doesn't pop up much either. More Clovis points then Folsoms for the Paleo era, and they do show up more often. The lowly Angostura, now that's the Paleo version of a Perd for being common.
Well, the mention of some rare types of texas points is on track & I agree with the ones mentioned but here's one that i've never seen posted or even at a show that i can remeber, which is a Coldwater point made of rootbeer chert from E. texas.
Didn't even know that one existed in Tx. till I looked it up. Yep, there it is, East Tx. point. Can't say I've ever seen that one at the shows or even mentioned on any of the forums. Good point there Chuck, thanks for posting. Hadn't seen you around in a while, thought you'd disappeared. Glad to see you back.
I took the Barber and the fluted Kinney/Golondrina to the book signing and let Hester, McReynold's, and Shafer put their eyeballs to them for a proffessional ID. I got three different ID's on the fluted point. A Plainview and a "I don't know." were the only two answers that I wasn't expecting. Hester did say that a lot of So.Tx. Paleo points were heavily used and most that are found are generally worn out. Still, it was nice to know that it is a Paleo point, whatever it is.
My vote would be Folsoms and complete early stage Andices.
Ctangs are highly desired, but apparently not that rare to find.
I like the eden flaking can unbleveable.nothing random about them. but the thing that i could never find is a plumet
Surprisingly, and I don't have one, I've seen more CTangs posted and at shows then several other point types. They also have a wider range then I first thought. Not like Tx. is the only place they're found. I'm kinda partial to Carrizo points and at the last Fredericksburg show, only saw two. I saw better then twenty Corner Tangs. Only saw one other Barber point there.
I got one not sure on the type I found it in Williamson co. I have seen plainview flakeing that looks close to it the eared side on the base was done in later times.I shared a hole with other diggers so I showed up and knocked it out in one swing the guy before me broke the tip off and it was never found any clue?
Just a guess, a Firstview? Looks like a weak shoulder on the bottom. Would have been a killer if the tip wasn't broken. Still a nice find.
Thats what I been calling it but it seems like Firstview has colateral flakeing not parallel
some people say its Angostura flakeing but I dont know.
I was going through my books and three of them have the flaking as parallel, one shows parallel transverse, and only one book shows colateral.
I'd call it a Firstview, even with the discrepancy on flaking just because of the overall shape and weak shoulders.
Sounds good to me
looks like I need to get a overstreet
thanks for the info
Got that data from Perino's, Hester's, Dan Davis's, and Overstreet's. Seems the Firstview is a Scottsbluff variant. A nice old point.
If that was the day that kid found that 7" blade on the table next to us, we were there. We did pretty good ourselves, just not as good as you. I'd say that does look like an unfluted Clovis. I think the Ango's are more slender, at least the ones we found out there. Not sure about the Agate Basin though.
a couple that i think are rare even though i have seen alot is the pandale and bells i havent seen allot of bells maybe more andices than bells
That's a real beaut. I must have missed seeing it when found. Really nice serrations.
You always hear about rootbeer flint but that one looks like it's got honey flint mixed in. We were the second table over from where y'all were. There were some real nice points found out there that day.
FINALLY.... after all these years of posting nothing but G8, G9 & G9.5 finds we get to see some from the G10 frame.
I've never found one of them but Melvin did out at Vanderpool. Unfortunately he dinged it with his wiggle pick.
I'd heard that they were ceremonial points,used when a couple or two tribes joined together. I was just wondering if the couple did split up, would they break the double based point in two and the guy get the shorter piece of it?
I was going through Hester's new book and see we got some newly named points. The Laguna is one of them. Now how many Bell "variants" will now be switched over to a Laguna point?
Dang, now we have a whole new world of rare points to go through. This is going to make point identification even more difficult. I thougt I had finally figured it out.