Hi everyone,

I found this site from another message board a couple of weeks ago and I am hooked. This is a great site. I am posting to see if anyone can help me ID some of these. I surface look on my property and these are not the best finds but they have me very intrigued. They are all similar and (for the most part) have really good flaking compared to the other stuff I find. Also, i had an archaeologist from my last company say these appear to be paleo (besides the drill). Are these paleo and can anyone ID these for me? Thanks in advance.

Welcome Jim, Very nice finds.

They sure do look like Golindra's, and maybe right of the drill being a Thrall. Def. not a expert, but look Late paleo?

It is interesting to have found so many on the surface, was there some type of dirt excavation going on at your place?

Are these finds from Texas and what area?

Please post some of your better ones!!!

Oh forgot to ask is there any grinding om base and sides?

What a great selection, including the broken ones
I agree with your Arch friend, all Paleo, Clovis and or Plainview including the plainview drill but not the very young Angostura.

Tks for the show

Just saw Sandy's posting... could well be his specified types, My guesstimates just indicate what bucket I would put them in if they were mine
I'm curious too about your location, thats a lot of surface 10,000 yr + old artifacts just to be lying on the surface..

Sandy...You drove me to the s
Where's the THRALL ?

Thanks. These are from looking over the same property for 20 years. There has been no earthwork on the property but the area I look has large washouts on caliche hills. My property is located in Karnes County which is pretty far south for paleo stuff. That is why they have me intrigued.

When I get some time I will post up some of my collection.

Thanks again.

Jimaah

They all look to be Paleo, angostura to golondrina.

You are on the edge of good paleo county. As one goes east and southeast the more paleo seems to be found.

john h

Hal, the Thrall is a relative to the hell gap, but the point is most likely a ango as you and John have i.d. Still learning!!!

A real impressive site collection!

Here are some more of my surface finds... these are from Karnes and Webb County. If ya'll see anything interesting please let me know. I have always wanted to dig on the Karnes County land and thanks to this site I have an idea on how to do it.

If your like most surfacers, every one of those finds brings back a memory Very good show.
Quite a number could be individually singled out...I'll just do the one in the top middle...Could be a CARACARA which according to the diagram of range in Dr H's book, is exclusively WELLS county...( not a hardfast statistic as points find their way all over the place by trade, far ranging hunting parties OR just a plain old fashioned souvenir brought back from a distant area )

One big feature of your collection that brings back to light the fact of location of baseless points...
For those interested..Go to the top of the message page...type in STEMMED and click SEARCH.
Be sure to hit VIEW ENTIRE THREAD for each..especially at the bottom...." STEMMED VS UNSTEMMED

Paleoindian artifacts are found as far south as South America. Those folks did get around.

We're all learning, if not about the thing of interest, then something else.

Still looking for the Thrall, I went to the OverS editors page looking for a possible website ......

No website listed but I was surprised to find that this book of North American artifacts was PRINTED IN CHINA

Karnes and Webb counties were neighboring counties of my old stomping grounds and the points Jimah found are right in the range of my surface finds. Ango's were fairly common for Paleo, other Paleo points are found but in decreasing quantity. I see Desmukes mixed right in with Matamoros blades. All good finds for surfacing.

The Turner and Hester new edition of Stone Artifacts of Texas Indians does not list the Thrall as an accepted type. They refer to it as suggested Paleo Indian type along with the Berclair and Lubbock types and that all three types need more work in terms of definition, distribution and dating. Turner and Hester also dropped the Hell Gap as a type found in Texas. Turner and Hester go on to say that in their view the Thrall type is largely made up of Angosturas and that the Angostura is widely distributed in Texas and varies widely in shape and flaking, causing problems in definition.
All of my Hell Gaps have been reclassified as Angosturas until further updates.

Where's the eagle effigy from? Everything else looks good but how come no one has questioned it yet every one i have ever seen or herd of turned out fake

The eagle is from Webb County... it is real, if not it is the longest lasting most believable prank ever. I was with a buddy looking for points on our Webb County place. He refused to get a gate saying he has got them all, all day long (that was the first and only gate I opened that day). I went and got the gate and it was at the end of the swing. He still cusses to this day about not getting that gate and that was about 10-12 years ago. Also, a guy with a place about 3 miles from ours found one. His is exactly the same but about half inch larger. My buddy and the other guy that found one have no connection so I have no reason to believe he planted it.

It is my thinking that your buddy is still tugging on your leg!! I do not think any bird effigies have been uncovered in Texas or ?

I agree. The bird efigy looks like those sold in Mexico to tourist. I've heard of a couple of cases where they were found in the brush but the thought is that they were lost by illegals headed north. I've seen a few eccentrics and exotics in collections in the Frio/LaSalle,Dimmit, Zavala area but those are usually not identifiable as animals, just ancient flint tinkerings.

Real or fake doesn't really matter to me. It is cool to me and I don't plan to sell any of my points... So I am sticking with my story

Good deal. post some of them killers when you start digging!

I was with a buddy once on the north san gabriel that found a turtle effigy that was pretty remarkable...but it does look a bit to good to be true.

Re Eagle; ANOTHER learning opportunity
Without comment to how it got there, I was curious if that unique design might be found in some archives...I used BING.COM for a change.
Did not do very well as it's hard to convert an image to a broad search, closest I got was the emblem of a ford Thunderbird car.

BUT.......using " AZTEC THUNDERBIRD EFFIGY "
I came across a VERY VERY SIMILAR find under the listing of " TREASURENET.COM..Eagle real or fake "
If you can find this location there is a picture of the Eagle that is a VERY CLOSE outline of the Texas Eagle except for very prominent serations..
Read the story of the finding AND the readers comments..

It was found in PENNSYLVANIA

The Turner and Hester book is the most important reference book in existence for Texas stone artifacts. If you are a Texas collector and you don't have a copy, you are severely limited; kinda like a preacher without a Bible. Here's what they have to say about flint thunderbirds: " Like all of the chert fish hooks, every chert thunderbird is a fake !"