Pat, give us a chance, from one old fart to another....when I first got to do some digging, I never found anything except chips, btw it was at digfest '07, but I got to meet a lot of folks that knew what they were doing...I met a couple of folks that would sit and explain their methods of finding points, usually at the morning gathering for coffee, I bought a lot of points from the various sites and some books and we were off to the races...lol. Now, I can't go anywhere with rocks on the ground that I don't look for points. This is a very addicting hobby and I have had the chance to meet so many folks from all over and view thier collections... Thanks michelle and hal for many an enjoyable evening just looking and watching the threads....goat