Well, my first comment is to Tommy. Somewhere around five years clean my life took a drastic change. I found myself not wanting to go to work. Lying on the couch for hours, not being a responsible parent (I am a single dad of 3 young children), having a thought in my mind and not being able to express it. I felt like I was going crazy.

I was one in the fellowship who used to preach about how the steps could fix anything. If you were depressed, you were not not working a through 10th, 11th or 12th step. If you took medication other than for a life threatening illness (diabeties, heart disease, etc.) you were not working a program of recovery. Work the steps I preached.

So here I was. Depressed. Thinking about suicide. I "heavied up" as my sponsor calls it. I went to a meeting every night. I worked my steps. I did service work. I was praying, but I wasnt getting any better. Only worse. Why weren't the steps working?

At the suggestion of others, I went to see a professional. Not a psychiatrist, but a retired M.D. who is in the fellowship and is now a practicing "addictionologist", specializing in dual diagnosis, mental disorders in addicts and alcoholics, and relapse prevention. Before he prescribed anything, we talked for nearly an hour and a half. I felt like I was giving a 5th step. He asked me about my step work, my meeting attendance, sponsorship, home life, work life and anything else we could talk about. Before he prescribed anything, he made sure that it wasn't a lack of recovery.

He diagnosed me as manic depressive, bi-polar and prescribed 2 different medications. Those meds have changed my life. I believe God can heal anything and I reaffirmed my belief that the steps will fix any area of my life, only this time it was the principles of the steps and God that told me it was ok to seek help outside of the circle. I see my "doctor" as I need him. Sometimes not for 2 months at a time and every visit, I do a "mini 5th step". I am grateful I have someone prescribing me meds who is working the 12 steps. Psychiatrists and other therapists, no matter how much education and training, just do not understand the mind of an addict or alcholic without actually being one. They make guesses based on something they read.


My next comment is on th "higher power" thing. I once went to meetings with a fellow who would talk about this big oak tree in his back yard being his higher power. It had withstood time, storms and continued to thrive. It did not judge him. He would sit under this tree and still his mind. Get in touch with nature. He did not believe in this thing we call "GOD" and the fellowship told him he didn't have to. One night he walk into a meeting full of rage, sadness, uncertainty and a whole range of emotions. He had came home from work and found that the power company had cut down the tree. His Higher Power was gone and so is he because of his refusal to believe. It seems there was a power greater than the higher power he chose, the POWER company. The only one who can take GOD from my life is God himself. Even I do not have the power to deny GOD if he chooses to enter my life, which he did nearly 8 years ago.

Grateful Dude..(whatever that said)
I will tell you that it is important for you to get involved (in Recovery) with people like you and me. Dual Diagnosed Recovery! There are things that go on in AA meetings, that just don't suit us, or help us.. You will be amazed when you get involved in Dual Recovery Anonymous. It is a 12 step program much like AA's 12 steps, but I'll tell you that we are a bit different... We don't put near as much emphasis on the God solving your problems for you.
If you are bi-polar, you may have some ideas about why that is.. anyway, I won't go into it here in this "Christian" site... with people who worship an idol.. but, if you want to get into our website, let me know, and I'll send you an invitation..
http://doublebubblegroup.tripod.com

But that's my point Tommy. I do believe God can and will solve all my problems. The way he helps me with my dual illness is to give me the sanity and common sense to seek professional help.

I wish you all the best and I am glad you have found something that works for you, but if you were to put more emphasis on God and allow him into YOUR life, maybe you wouldn't be so quick to judge others for doing what works for them.

I hate to sound harsh and don't get me wrong, but from your posts, it seem very angry or bitter with something in your life and seem to be somewhat defensive. God can and will help you with that if you allow him.

take care

Thank you both for your post. I must say however that everyone worships idols. When we put any of our material things before our recovery o0r God, when ever we allow even a fellowship to control us, or when we become so religious that we stop living as Jesus would have us live, we have made idols of those things. As far as Christians worshiping idols, perhaps some do, but I haven't met any that worship anyone but Christ, who is not an idol, but God. And if you don't believe that He is God that's your right, but it doesn't change who He is.
Not judging you at all. It's simply not fair to expect a non-Christian to believe like a Christian. That's something only God can change in a person.

Yes this is a Christian site, and there are Satanic, New Age, Athiest, Muslum, and a wide varity of sites out there. So what? Variety is the spice of life. As far as my spelling goes, yep, I am terrible at it. Oh well. I will work on that.

Until next time, I will still say God Bless.

Montyman

Thanks for letting me post a few messages on your site.. but, BTW, Who did Jesus pray to everyday anyway?? I guess that's my God!!
Tommy

Jesus prayed to the Heavenly Father, ours and His.
That's my God also, When God became flesh and dwelt among us (First John Chapter 1) He was fully God and fully man, Tempted in every way we were bu8t did not sin. The part of Him that was fully man was totally obeident to the Father. When I say that my Higher Power is Jesus Christ I am saying it is God. I know that sounds confusing, but the trinity is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 3 in one but all seperate individules. How? I have no idea, it's by faith I believe and believe what the Bible says. I don't claim to be able to prove the Bible, because it is by faith I believe it. That's all I am saying.

I am glad you posted, because to be honest, I learn more from people that disagree with me than I do from those who agree. I am thankful for that and you are welcome any time.

Peace my friend.

Montyman

I wasn't going to post anymore, but Gratefuldude, you claimed I was being "judgemental", then you insinuated that I have not found God. That is a part of manic depression, and being bi-polar, in that you get delusional, and misinterpret what you see and hear.
Dual Recovery Anonymous is a 12 Step Program, and is a process of finding God, (or rather letting God find you!) in your mind. We have to examine our own delusions, and find reality with our Spirituality. Most of us have had delusional "Gods".. "Demons".. "Devils".. "Jesus's"..
"Oak trees".. but, we work our way back to reality.
AA Groups seldom know how to do that, they are too busy trying to find a god, any god.. Believe me, I have found God, and through studying the teaching of Jesus, and a lot more,.. Not worshiping him.. the invitation still goes to you..

Brother Monty,

Long time no rave! Computer has been on the fritz. Arghhh........recover from a multitude of life threatening bondages, redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb.....no problem. Computer crashes? Now that's a real serenity buster. Back on line with a freebie accounbt that will not let me access my Yahoo mail without an upgrade. Arghhhh again. There's always a catch. Anyhoo.....CAT scan came back clean. Praise God! Ready to roll out the 'recovery jams' forum Monty? Lemme' know. On another note, I read the great x-change between you, Tommy, Ian and others. How killer! Father is pleased. Reminds me of the story of Jacob when he wrestled with the Lord all night. It's been brought to my awareness that Father dug it. He loves it when we wrestle with Him because, (at the very least), it involves contact and passion. Of course, the Lord let Jacob "win" but left him with a limp so Jake would know who his Higher Power was. Interesting footnote to that story; one translation of "thigh" (that the Lord grabbed of Jacob's) is...you guessed it......"privates". We could really riff' with that one.........but suffice to say surrendering to the Lordship of Jesus Christ is the most "manly" thing any brother or sister could do. I so loved the antidote shared about the oak tree. That rawked! Of all the mini-gods and higher powers chosen in life to assuage the guilt of my rebellion.......the worst god of all was me. In closing, it's good to be back with ya'll. The STS community is an important tool from the toolbox of recovery that God has been so precious to gift us with. Your work is not going unoticed Monty. Father is pleased..........mis-spellings and all. Your article on "Anti Treatment Center Menatlity" was great. Keep up the good work. I make copies and pass them out all over "holy holland" (as my dear sponsor refers to this place). Tommy and Ian.....I love you guys! Keep on knocking, Asking, Seeking and fighting! I too was recently diagnosed with another "co-existing" condition, ADD (inattentive subset) and now take Ritalin prescribed my Spirit-filled MD. I'm accountable to my therapist, sponsor and others. While I'm cognizant of the potential for abuse, but as a former abuser of.......ahem.......opiates, I'm not wired for speed, coke or anything fast. If anything, I can sleep on it. The old-school mentality of "just don't pick up and go to meetings" has some validity, but it does not, nor was it ever intbe a panacea for all of life's woes. Would we tell a brother diagnosed with cancer to "JUST DON'T PICK UP AND GO TO MEETING?" I think not. In addition to the ADD, Hep B & C, cirhosis, insulin-dependent diabetes and a host of other maladies as a consequence of the sin of my using daze, Father is faithful to forgive, redeem, restore and make whole....be it through His divine touch or an MD, shrink, counselor or other wing-nuts at our fellowships. Amen? I don't care how He does it today and no longer dictate the terms and treatment of my recovery from active addiction, opting instead to keep it simple, get out of the way, be obedient in the little things and let God rock my world. Keep on wrestling brothers! At the end of the day, Jesus is Lord and we are not.

Tim, Jesus is Lord and worthy to be praised.!!!

Thanks Tim. Start the music forum dude. Do you know how to get it going here?

Monty

Monty,

As a Christian I am very disipointed in the way the church has treated the homosexuals in this country. Though we do not condone homosexuality we should understand that God love us all and that Salvation is offered to all people. We are all sinners and we all have been in rebellion one time or another and will be again I'm sure. We need to reach out to all people regardless of their behavior. By placing those links on your site you have made a unpopular statement I'm sure, but you reconize that the gay folks out there with drug problems deserve recovery and maybe if they get clean and sober they will be more able to find the Lord. I know I could not until I was sober. We are no better or worse than eachother. It is only because of Christ that we have any hope at all. Praise Him!

All the Best,
Jason

I ALSO DO NOT TAKE A VOTE JANET. IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE FOR HUMANS, SEEMS TO ME IT
IS WHERE IT SHOULD BE. IN GOD'S HANDS. IT'S NOT THE GROUP THAT SHOULD BE
PERSECUTED EITHER.AS WE KNOW ,JANET CAN BE SOMEWHAT OF A OVER-PROTECTIVE HEN, I
BELIEVE IT'S CALLED CO-DEPENDANCEY, OH YEA , I LEARNED THAT ABOUT MYSELF FROM
JANET AFTER YEARS OF FIGHTING THAT FACT. I THINK THIS IS BETWEEN GOD AND
LABRINA, FROM WHERE I'M SITTING, AND SO FAR THAT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD!GOD IS THE
ONLY ONE WHOM'S MERCY REALLY MATTERS ANYWAY, THE REST IS JUST US ON EARTH
DAY-BY-DAY WHEREVER "WE PUT OURSELVES" BUT THEN AGAIN THAT'S JUST MY FEELING.
YOU KNOW JANET WE CAN'T CONTROL HOW OTHERS FEEL,OR EVEN TRY TO UNDERSTAND MOST
OF THE TIME. EXSPEACIALLY IN THOSE GROUPS. I LOVE TUESDAY NIGHTS, THAT'S WHERE
I FEEL SAFE!!!!!!!


SIDE NOTE; WHAT IF THOSE 300.$$ BOLT CUTTERS WOULD OF WORKED? THERE'S THE MERCY
IF YOU ASK ME. THE REST IS JUST PEOPLE STUFF, AND LABRINA PULLED THROUGH SOUNDS
LIKE TO ME. ONE CAN'T REALLY BLAME THE OTHERS TOO MUCH, UNLESS OF COURSE THEY
ARE ALLWAYS UNFARE PEOPLE TO EVERYONE ELSE IN LIFE, AND THEN STILL, THAT'S GOD
'S JOB TO DEAL WTHEM.

LABRINA IS VERY VERY LUCKY I BELIEVE ALL THE WRONGS THAT SHE HAS DONE JANETS
HOUSEHOLD, AND STILL LOOK WHERE SHE LIVES, THAT'S MORE MERCY THAN I HAVE EVER
WITNESSED FOR ANOTHER HUMANN, AND BOY HAVE I MET SOME HUMANS!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAH
LOVE YA
MS. B

Hello:

Ahhh Monty you know I love you and you know that I think you rock. That article about the Gay community is right on! Whenever I'm faced with a "stuck" brain and once in awhile it happens I always fall back to what Jesus said "Who are you to judge?"
I'm a redneck from way back and with lots of help, prayer and time I'm not as bad, but I still twitch every now and then. That I twitch is embarrassing to me, but honestly I do and then that idea of "Who am I to judge" comes through.
I want everyone that walks into the rooms to feel the love that I felt. I want everyone that walks into the solice of church to feel love.
I know that doesn't always happen as we have discussed at length before, but I pray that if anyone is truly seeking they shall find. I love you man!

Hey Brother Joe. Jesus said the preach to the mutitudes. He never said what they should look like or act like or live like. He just said take his word to the multitude. Isn't it great buddy. I'm so glad you responded to that article. Your so awsume.
Love Ya.
Monty

Re: Anti-AA Rant.

"The thing to remember about reformed drunks is that they are the most self-absorbed, self-pitying, self-righteous bunch of moral fundamentalists you’re ever likely to stagger into."

Wrong. That's only the ones who go to meetings.

The ones at my home group are all from outerspace and don't speak english

...Sooo this is one of those "Recovery" forums I've heard so much about. Where to begin? First off I love it when folks play fast and loose with "AA HISTORY" and McStatistics. Am I to believe that we are supposed to disregard the hard learned lessons that where taught through the years in AA just so that we can be manipulated into "accepting the lord jesus christ as our personal savior"? Should we go back to putting newcomers on a strict diet of sourkrout and Kayo syrup, ala Dr. Bob as well? How about giving unqualified medical and psychological advise so we can start waking up to suicides in our kitchens again? My point is that along with the debt we owe our founders we also owe AA the respect to grow and evolve through the traditions that were set in place to keep AA available to all. I really don't understand the neccessaty for those who have found relief in organised religeon to drag their pulpits into AA, isn't there enough room for that outside the fellowship? Why is it neccessary to disrespect other spiritual beliefs in AA just to make ya'll feel superior to the infidells you hope to convert? But hey live and let live....as long as it doesn't effect AA as a whole. Unfortunatly there are those (Back to Basics, ie; The faith with works company) who don't respect the simple traditions AA has set in place to (for one thing) protect itself from becoming a RELIGION. If they speak the truth then why do they decieve with untruths and misleading stats? That bit about the 85% recovery rate back in the day, it's a nonsense stat and anybody who has half a brain knows it. To compare todays AA participants to those of 50-60 years ago is deliberatly misleading. Back then Rehabs,courts and a much more general Knoewledge that the program even exhists, weren't flooding AA with folks who might not be serious or appropriate for AA suggested steps of recovery, the B2B folks have got to be aware of that. So why do they continue to deliberatly mislead? Because they have an AGENDA, they have to make others think and act as they do lest their egotistical "COMPETATIVE SALVATION" lose it's glow of superiority. But take heart AA, the kooks tried this stuff in Arkansas back in the 40s too,AA survived that assault and if it be Gods Will we'll survive this latest christian jihad as well. ps. for those of ya'll who might reply I am aware that my spelling stinks.

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Hey Montyman, long time no chat. Just happened back into this site editing my favs. I see the anti-Christian rant is still going on. Pity.
If not for my Lord and Savior I would not be here today with over 6 years without foul substances ruinng my mind/body/spirit.
Earlier someone mentioned 'McStatistics" well, here's a few to chew on. Secular recovery groups boast about a 10% recovery rate, you know the one in ten thing. Well, there has been a burst of growth in Christian 12 step recovery groups, guess what, 80% success rate.
Let's do a comparison here: Secular-10% Christian-80%. hmmmmmmmmm Seems like there is a True Higher Power at work here, could it be Jesus??????? Think so, no, I know so.
As for all you non believers out there, it's o.k. took me a while to come around the the Real HP.

May God Bless you all.

James Mc
p.s what ever happened to the regular mailings I used to get? How do I get them back?